Gaggia Cubika Coffee Machine

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Charles Turner

2007-11-20 22:51:37 UTC

Guys,

I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
make pretty good coffee.

However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.

I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.

In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
brew will not flow or is very slow.

I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
whether this has always been a problem.

Anyone got any advice or suggestions.

Thanks,

Charles

Giusi

2007-11-21 07:56:56 UTC

Permalink

Post by Charles Turner
Guys,
I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
make pretty good coffee.
I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
whether this has always been a problem.
Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
Thanks,
Charles

I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the
science of coffee and why things do or do not happen. Just go to his site
and search on Illy or espresso and you'll learn a lot. As I recall, it had
to do with pressure and the time that the steam spent on the coffee.

--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

AZ Nomad

2007-11-26 00:23:20 UTC

Permalink

Post by Giusi

I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the

Do you have a more specific link? All I found at www.davidlebowitz.com were
broken links. Searching for 'crema' returned nothing.

Bertie Doe

2007-11-26 20:42:06 UTC

Permalink

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:56 +0100, Giusi

Post by AZ Nomad

Post by Giusi

I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the

Do you have a more specific link? All I found at www.davidlebowitz.com were
broken links. Searching for 'crema' returned nothing.

Yep that's a typo on the surname spelling, if the following dosn't wrap type
type davidlebovitz and Illy into any search engine.
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/archives/2007/03/making_perfect.html

Bertie

AZ Nomad

2007-11-26 22:28:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by Bertie Doe
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:56 +0100, Giusi

Post by AZ Nomad

Post by Giusi

I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the

Do you have a more specific link? All I found at www.davidlebowitz.com were
broken links. Searching for 'crema' returned nothing.

Yep that's a typo on the surname spelling, if the following dosn't wrap type
type davidlebovitz and Illy into any search engine.
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/archives/2007/03/making_perfect.html

I thought it looked like a %#(%^(#&(%#% phishing site. They should be
outlawed and the people who have created them locked up for life.

lockjaw

2007-11-21 08:56:04 UTC

Permalink

Post by Charles Turner
Guys,
I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
make pretty good coffee.
However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
brew will not flow or is very slow.
I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
whether this has always been a problem.
Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
Thanks,
Charles

when was your coffee roasted? stale coffee delivers ever smaller
amounts of crema

Charles Turner

2007-11-21 09:20:42 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
types.

If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.

I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!

Charles

Post by lockjaw

when was your coffee roasted? stale coffee delivers ever smaller
amounts of crema

Moka Java

2007-11-21 13:15:48 UTC

Permalink

You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for
brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type
of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh"
for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It
will make crema and a decent tasting shot.

Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.

Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
on the day of purchase.

R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

Charles Turner

2007-11-21 13:59:41 UTC

Permalink

Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a good
crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.

Regards,

Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year or
more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best, they
flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no longer
fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee give off gas
(CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile oils that
emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make crema. Once
the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing
purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans,
the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make
crema and a decent tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can would
explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

lockjaw

2007-11-21 16:32:46 UTC

Permalink

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a good
crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

there are really only 4 factors, as the ltalians would say:

machine
grind (
coffee (see above)
technique (loading / tamping)

so if this very same coffee w/ the very same grind can do well on
another machine that leaves us with your

machine!
[assuming it is scrupulously clean]

temperature
and / or
pressure.

dave

www.hitechespresso.com

(I have machines with very stable, controllable temperatures, and
regulated pressures.)

Moka Java

2007-11-21 17:24:33 UTC

Permalink

I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee
in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the
other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated
bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is
created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee.
This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and
pressure in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that
from a crema enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole,
aerating it and creating bubbles.

R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a
year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the
best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid
and no longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted
coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the
volatile oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the
coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it
is stale for for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors
including the type of beans, the degree of roast and storage
conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term
"fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make crema and a decent
tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a
noticeable difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
roasted on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
different types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

Charles Turner

2007-11-21 17:44:48 UTC

Permalink

No, you did miss the point.

As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a good
crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema enhancer
disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine, just not sure
how, or whether it can be resolved.

Best Regards,

Charles

PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?

I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee in
other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the other
machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated bubbles
you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is created by the
emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee. This is done with
fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and pressure in a properly
adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that from a crema enhancer that
just sprays the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and creating
bubbles.
R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for
brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type
of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh"
for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It
will make crema and a decent tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
different types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

Tex

2007-11-21 18:01:07 UTC

Permalink

Howdy Charles!
It depends on your expectations & restrictions;
* what's your budget
* do you want consistent "God Shots" or do you primarily have milked drinks
* do you prefer the S/S industrial look that's currently in vogue
* are you willing/capable of buying a machine & upgrading it yourself

There is no *perfect* machine. They're all about compromises; size for
features, convenience for shot quality, price for machine quality, etc. For
my money it's impossible to find another brand of machine in Gaggia's price
range that produces the same quality coffee.
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)

Post by Charles Turner
No, you did miss the point.
As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a
good crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema
enhancer disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine,
just not sure how, or whether it can be resolved.
Best Regards,
Charles
PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?

Post by Moka Java
I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee
in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the
other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated
bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is
created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee.
This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and pressure
in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that from a crema
enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and
creating bubbles.
R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for
for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the
type of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is
"fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso
purposes. It will make crema and a decent tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
roasted on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
different types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

daveb

2007-11-22 07:51:03 UTC

Permalink

for your money.

Post by Tex
Howdy Charles!
It depends on your expectations & restrictions;
* what's your budget
* do you want consistent "God Shots" or do you primarily have milked drinks
* do you prefer the S/S industrial look that's currently in vogue
* are you willing/capable of buying a machine & upgrading it yourself
There is no *perfect* machine. They're all about compromises; size for
features, convenience for shot quality, price for machine quality, etc.
For my money it's impossible to find another brand of machine in Gaggia's
price range that produces the same quality coffee.
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)

Post by Moka Java
I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee
in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the
other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated
bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is
created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee.
This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and
pressure in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that
from a crema enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole,
aerating it and creating bubbles.
R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a
year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the
best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid
and no longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted
coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the
volatile oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the
coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it
is stale for for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors
including the type of beans, the degree of roast and storage
conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term
"fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make crema and a decent
tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a
noticeable difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
roasted on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
different types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

Robert Harmon

2007-11-22 17:34:18 UTC

Permalink

Oh please Bub, enlighten us - which machine in the Gaggia's price
range, $200 - $500, can match them for quality coffee?

Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)

Post by daveb
for your money.

Moka Java

2007-11-21 20:30:39 UTC

Permalink

I re-read your original post. Where did you say you used the same
coffee in different machines? If you did not know what a crema enhancer
was how do you know those machines didn't have them?

LaMarzocco makes a nice espresso machine.

R "aw what's the point" TF

Post by Moka Java
I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same
coffee in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale
coffee. If the other machines had crema enhancer disks in the
portafilter the aerated bubbles you see are not real crema, just
aerated bubbles. Crema is created by the emulsification of oils and
other compounds in the coffee. This is done with fresh coffee, freshly
ground under the heat and pressure in a properly adjusted espresso
machine. You don't get that from a crema enhancer that just sprays
the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and creating bubbles.
R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces
a good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The
mass coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh"
for a year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked
is the best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product
is rancid and no longer fresh for health department purposes.
Freshly roasted coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and
aromatics. It is the volatile oils that emulsify with water and
other compounds in the coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has
lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing purposes.
Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans, the
degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will
make crema and a decent tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a
noticeable difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
roasted on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
different types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

Ralph

2007-11-21 17:25:09 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

just an amateur here, but I noticed a distinct difference between even
machines of the same make and model.

I've noticed that the temperature that the water is heated to, influences
the crema.
I can't say what effect either the coffee, or the machine timing would have
on it, though.
Coffee is a complex drink, with many variables going into a recipe.
Unless you can isolate everything, you'll always have differences.
- kinda like wine, that way.

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee give
off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile oils
that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make crema.
Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing
purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans,
the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make
crema and a decent tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

daveb

2007-11-26 03:17:49 UTC

Permalink

the thermostats have very wide allowable tolerances, for one thing.

dave

Post by Ralph
Hi,
just an amateur here, but I noticed a distinct difference between even
machines of the same make and model.
I've noticed that the temperature that the water is heated to, influences
the crema.
I can't say what effect either the coffee, or the machine timing would
have on it, though.
Coffee is a complex drink, with many variables going into a recipe.
Unless you can isolate everything, you'll always have differences.
- kinda like wine, that way.

Post by Charles Turner
Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
Regards,
Charles

Post by Moka Java
You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for
brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type
of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh"
for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It
will make crema and a decent tasting shot.
Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.
Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
on the day of purchase.
R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Post by Charles Turner
Hi,
It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
different types.
If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
Charles

opother

2007-11-21 20:20:59 UTC

Permalink

I don't know why you are not getting the same results as with the
other

machines DO NOT GET THE CREMA ENCHANER DISK, the crema it makes is
not

real it will only mask progress or failures in your technique as crema
is

one of the byproducts of good preparation.

You also may want to try temperature surfing by throwing the
steaming

switch and then hitting the brew switch at some point before the
water

gets to steaming temperature after some trial and error you will know
at

how many seconds to throw the brew switch after activating the
steaming

coils.

Sour taste and very light crema is usually brewed at too low a

temperature and too high will produce bitterness and burnt taste with

thin dark crema or even good looking crema sometimes but bad taste.

Crema is just one of the factors.

Do the other machines have crema enhancing portafilters? if so maybe

they are just making so and so coffee look asthetically pleasing

(interpretation a big head of phoney crema) and your machine is
producing

a more honest representation of outcome due to coffee quality,
tecnique,

grind, and/or tamp. Maybe not ???

How does the coffee taste ?? You did say you used whole beans (what

kind and their roasting date I know nothing about) and ground them
(with

what kind of grinding device ?), BUT you also mentioned PREGROUND
which

is a NO NO (that is one I can answer)

Since most US espresso shops produce swill even the so so espresso
with

or without milk may be a much better tasting alternative so if you
like

the taste (is it better or as good as what the other machines make?)
then

I wouldn't worry about it.

There are a few reviews on this machine at this site

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/gaggiacubika

opother

2007-11-21 21:14:07 UTC

Permalink

Post by opother

I don't know why you are not getting the same results as with the
other
machines DO NOT GET THE CREMA ENCHANER DISK, the crema it makes is
not
real it will only mask progress or failures in your technique as crema
is
one of the byproducts of good preparation.
You also may want to try temperature surfing by throwing the
steaming
switch and then hitting the brew switch at some point before the
water
gets to steaming temperature after some trial and error you will know
at
how many seconds to throw the brew switch after activating the
steaming
coils.
Sour taste and very light crema is usually brewed at too low a
temperature and too high will produce bitterness and burnt taste with
thin dark crema or even good looking crema sometimes but bad taste.
Crema is just one of the factors.
Do the other machines have crema enhancing portafilters? if so maybe
they are just making so and so coffee look asthetically pleasing
(interpretation a big head of phoney crema) and your machine is
producing
a more honest representation of outcome due to coffee quality,
tecnique,
grind, and/or tamp. Maybe not ???
How does the coffee taste ?? You did say you used whole beans (what
kind and their roasting date I know nothing about) and ground them
(with
what kind of grinding device ?), BUT you also mentioned PREGROUND
which
is a NO NO (that is one I can answer)
Since most US espresso shops produce swill even the so so espresso
with
or without milk may be a much better tasting alternative so if you
like
the taste (is it better or as good as what the other machines make?)
then
I wouldn't worry about it.
There are a few reviews on this machine at this site
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/gaggiacubika- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Oops oops oops sorry about that I FAILED TO NOTE that you have NEVER
used a crema enchancer disk well that takes one equation out.

Hmmm I am now thinking different size portafilter maybe ?? Deeper
portafilters with a smaller diameter are more forgiving than
portafilters with a wider diameter and less deph also these machines
may produce different pump pressures they usually say 15 bars which is
too much anyway but still capable of making a good brew (~ 8.5 to 9
bars is the standard) but some boast 18 bars these are maximum
pressures and not the actual pressure when brewing as this is also
controlled by size of grind and dose (brewing pressure).

What this all boils down to is that you probably need to change your
grind size, dose, and/or tamping pressure. Hint grind size and dose
are much more significant factors.
Would I be correct to say that your gaggia has a wider 58mm
portafilter and your other machines may have had a deeper

opother

2007-11-21 21:15:28 UTC

Permalink

continued..

narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?

opother

2007-11-21 21:26:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by opother

continued..
narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I say deeper portafilters are more forgiving I mean in regards
to tamping tecnique not just dose and how hard you tamp. I find the
wider portafilters are more prone to channeling if you don't perfectly
spread out the coffee evenly which can be complicated when it clumps
together which happens often with doser grinders like my super jolly
rather than sprinkle evenly throughout the portafilter.

So I would in addition to adjusting for different size portafilter,
also do whatever you can to ensure as even a dispersal as possible and
tamp with manic perfection. I have been doing this for years and you
may have too ? But I still am not a perfect tamper myself.

opother

2007-11-21 21:29:04 UTC

Permalink

Post by opother

continued..
narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I say deeper portafilters are more forgiving I mean in regards
to tamping tecnique not just dose and how hard you tamp. I find the
wider portafilters are more prone to channeling if you don't perfectly
spread out the coffee evenly which can be complicated when it clumps
together which happens often with doser grinders like my super jolly
rather than sprinkle evenly throughout the portafilter.
So I would in addition to adjusting for different size portafilter,
also do whatever you can to ensure as even a dispersal as possible and
tamp with manic perfection. I have been doing this for years and you
may have too ? But I still am not a perfect tamper myself.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I would be interested in any results could you lets us know. My
apologies for be presumptious

D. Ross

2007-11-24 00:10:47 UTC

Permalink

"Charles Turner" <***@btinternet.com> wrote:

| I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
| make pretty good coffee.

The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with
the Gaggia name.

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net

lockjaw

2007-11-25 05:51:21 UTC

Permalink

Post by D. Ross
| I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
| make pretty good coffee.
The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with
the Gaggia name.

made in the same sweatshop.

gaggia = saeco saeco = gaggia

D. Ross

2007-11-27 08:39:38 UTC

Permalink

lockjaw <***@gmail.com> wrote:

| On Nov 23, 7:10 pm, ***@math.hawaii.NOSPAM.edu (D. Ross) wrote:
| > "Charles Turner" <***@btinternet.com> wrote:
| >
| > | I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
| > | make pretty good coffee.
| >
| > The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with
| > the Gaggia name.
| >
|
| made in the same sweatshop.

No, just under the same company. Saeco owns Gaggia (actually, a French
multinational owns both), and they are increasingly mixing and matching
parts, but the Gaggia gruppo is made in Milano (I guess moving to China),
while IIRC Saeco gruppo is made in Bolgna.

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net